The UK, Britain, Great Britain, The British Isles, England - what's the difference? I could see those different types of logos being used across scenarios. Famous in York and up and down the East Coast Main Line, LNER could soon be consigned to history - again, YorkMix understands. Here is some variants of my original 'swallow inspired' design. What is of 2020s Britain then? The livery derived its nickname from a perceived resemblance to the internal appearance of a Jaffa Cake. Much closer to what I was meaning (thanks. Interesting mock up doublearrow on Twitter just posted: What problem is this supposed to be fixing? The Tories, particulary this present mob of throwbacks, have long since co-opted the "great" in "Great Britain" to mean "very good"and it's xenophobic, imperialist undertones me me want to vomit. I think there would be huge advantages of a standard livery and branding across the Britain, in saving money and presenting a unified product to the customer. Introduced in 1965, and also known as "Monastral Blue", the colour was defined by British Rail standards BR28/6001 (Airless spray finish) and BR28/5321 (Brush finish). I can only see negatives. Aren't best impressions the ones that did the 2015 Virgin East Coast HST? Feb 1, 2020. The anniversary of the Battle of Hastings which took place in 1066 was also used in publicity for the line. The whole GBR thing is complicated as you have ScotRail and TfW already as separate brands that won't change, yet using "Rail England" or whatever is going to provoke outrage where services run by "English" operators go into Scotland and Wales (which rather ignores the same the other way round!). The final decision was to be made later in 2022,[16] but the result has not been announced as of February 2023. And other European countries cope with DB trains in France, SNCF trains in Germany etc. But theres no particular reason this should be. They were numbered in two series, D5500-D5699 and D5800-D5862. Old does not necessarily = bad. The Southern Region types worked mostly on the Charing Cross / Cannon Street - Hastings via Battle / Dover and Ramsgate routes and on the Victoria / London Bridge - Brighton / Littlehampton / Hastings via Eastbourne routes. Avanti merged with LNWR to form a GNWR brand. How about that but the double arrow in red? GBR will be made up of five regional divisions, organised in line with Network Rail's Putting Passengers First programme. Not too dissimilar to the old Northern logo arrangement. There is surely a case at least for putting the cross-border inter-city services in national colours (perhaps an updated take on Network SouthEast), to match the saltires splashed all over Scotrail trains. It's a given that there will be brands underneath GBR - if there weren't, it would make travelling pretty complicated. Heh. Yes i like it, very clean and professional looking. [5][6], The new GBR organisation was proposed under the WilliamsShapps Rail Review,[7] which was published as a white paper on 20 May 2021. If it was, that format would not be used by: If you need any proof, they've also just done the same with 'Great British Nuclear'. Given that the vast majority of passengers dont really care what the brand is, do GBR really need a brand? (60163 still carries this livery in 2018) Black. Whatever its failings and they were multitude branding was one thing British Rail took seriously and was remarkably good at. [citation needed]. This included many of the features which were later incorporated in the Mark 2, and trialled in an experimental train designated XP64. Cross Country merged with EMT to form a brand called Midland Connect. Because it was a nationalised industry run by the British Government. Today I would like to make a rather general suggestion rather than something specific. Compared to the superb branding packages of TfW and ScotRail, it does not say "come use the railway . Or do you think TfL should change their look away from using the current font simply because it's been that way since the 1930s or whenever? The rebranding of British Railways to British Rail on 1 January 1965 was coupled with the introduction of an entirely new national livery. After this time small variations in the Rail Blue livery became much more common. The x-height of the lower-case lettering should be equal to the height of the horizontal arms in the symbol, so that the row of text appears to align with them. Question for the designers. Can you only be professional if every rail person works in the same uniform? Press J to jump to the feed. Roofs were Dark Grey and underframes originally brown, but later black. Following the introduction of the Advanced Passenger Train in 1983, a similar livery to the APT's (dark grey on the upper body, and light beige on the lower, with two stripes of red and white separating them) was experimentally applied to two HST sets and the coaches operating the Gatwick Express service between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport. Incorrect: Britain and Great Britain are synonymous, referring to either the largest island of the British Isles (in a geographical context) or the countries of England, Scotland and Wales (in a political context). The purpose of this call for evidence was to develop an understanding of how much of the current and future market demand for freight could be met by rail, and the role rail can play in the nations supply chains. We need more national institutions to give a British shape to life, and GBR should be one of them. And the more I see RA2 and its symbols, the more clumsy it looks. I don't think there would ever be multiple logos for Great British Railways as you've alluded to - it would make it complicated for the end passenger. "Image of No.47163 with Silver Jubilee Union Jack", History of Blood and Custard (Crimson Lake & Cream) Livery, Information on Freight Locomotive Liveries & logos, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=British_Rail_corporate_liveries&oldid=1136093401, Articles with unsourced statements from December 2014, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. I'm not aware - what are TfW doing? You are using an out of date browser. The Union Jack will represent. don't see an issue anywhere, as long as the concessions stay branded with whatever. Variants where the band was blue (outer suburban) or green (inner suburban) instead of orange were planned, but never implemented.[15]. Great Northern split, with the Moorgate services becoming part of the London Overground brand and the Kings Lynn route becoming part of the LNER brand. I'm not convinced "InterCity" services warrant different branding now, as they are no longer of premium quality in terms of service provision; in many case they're just regional or commuter services (thinks XC and GWR in particular). But then every time I look at a train, I'll think of a bus. I said this on another thread, but this is definitely a more appropriate one. Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread . You are using an out of date browser. Scottish rolling stock not covered by the ScotRail livery (generally those on secondary services) received the Regional Railways livery, but with "ScotRail" branding. The government has promised to base the organisation outside London to promote economic growth and skills in a region beyond the capital. In 1977 two Class 47 locomotives, 47163 and 47164, were painted by Stratford TMD with silver roofs and other decorations including a full body height Union Flag on each side, in celebration of Queen Elizabeth II's silver jubilee. Why does it need to look the part - what does nationalisation look like? 3 Apr 2022 . As part of this work, the team engaged with industry through a formal call for evidence. Why are so many cars driven around dirty with the user making no attempt to keep them clean? [16] As well as rolling stock and multiple units, a number of Class 47 and Class 50 locomotives dedicated to Network SouthEast passenger services were painted in this livery. [15], Originally scheduled for May 2022,[14] a shortlist consisting Birmingham, Crewe, Derby, Doncaster, Newcastle upon Tyne, and York was announced in July 2022,[16] using the following criteria: alignment with "levelling up" objectives; connected and easy to get to; opportunities for GBR; railway heritage and links to the network; value for money; and public support. NR do infrastructure in Wales & Scotland, don't they? A later version added a red stripe along the lower edge of the locomotive bodyside. | Page 23 | RailUK Forums We're pleased to announce the launch of our new booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk, which helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchased. Railfreight livery, a colour scheme specifically for freight locomotives, was unveiled when Class 58 58001 drove through a plastic screen at Doncaster Works on 9 December 1982. The livery was carried on the rolling stock, but also on a number of locomotives which were dedicated to mail and parcels traffic, mainly of Classes 47 and 90. White letters on a navy background is the way to go. Maybe a "way out" arrow similar to Thameslink's station signage could make it more exciting, while also adding a bit more functionality? Although from the mid-1960s to the 1980s the organisation was associated with "Rail Blue", a number of other schemes were also used, especially when it was split into operating units or "sectors" in the mid-1980s. In the early years the colour faded quite badly, becoming lighter and paler with time although this problem had been overcome by the late 1970s. Upon sectorisation, most secondary passenger routes which did not fall under the InterCity or Network SouthEast banner were re-designated as Regional Railways (originally Provincial). I think in Germany it is done by using the "TOC" name in place of IC etc. In 1956 an all-over darker maroon, which more closely resembled the pre-nationalisation LMS livery, was re-introduced, except for the Southern Region, where locomotive-hauled stock was generally painted 'coaching stock' green (from July 1956-on) and a small number of express carriages on the Western Region which were in traditional GWR-style chocolate and cream. This was later modified for locomotives allocated to the Civil Engineer's department to include a yellow stripe on the upper bodyside, the resulting livery being known as "Dutch" due to its similarity to the corporate colours of the Nederlandse Spoorwegen.[18]. It may not display this or other websites correctly. TL:DR - if your a british collector, and you paint your own, PUT THE STRIPPER DOWN. There just isn't room on a well functioning railway for true competition, so you might as well focus on the passenger experience, not the rail operator experience. Underneath that in a smaller font, about half the height of the space between the botton track and the bottom of the arrow "Operated by [whomever] for Great British Railways". Free delivery for many products! Well Id have thought it might be GBR Northern or GBR Southern. We use cookies. I dont think we will see train liveries being changed for a while. It still has to look good decades from now. The double arrow is still overused, though. It is known as Great because it is the largest island in the British Isles, and houses the countries of England, Scotland and Wales within its shores. Then theres the question of livery. It's good work (and the previous set). Due to the consequent muddle of liveries, many trains began to get an untidy if not tatty appearance which added to the run-down image of the railway. Withdrawn 01001 is just visible at the rear. The bottom one is basically Serco era Northern signage, and does look good to me, though I would go for a subtle double arrow in the bottom right as I said earlier, and omit the GBR text. This mock-up was shown in an orange and grey livery, which, however, never appeared on rolling stock in service. I don't think the red understripe would appear though, and there will still be calls from TfGM, WYCA TfWM, TfW, etc. Great British Railways marks a new era in the history of our railways. Great British Railways (GBR) is a planned state-owned public body that will oversee rail transport in Great Britain,[1] with the exception of Transport for London and Merseytravel services, and light rail and trams elsewhere in England. Another Class 52, No.D1015 Western Champion was delivered in another, darker yellow/brown colour described as 'Golden Ochre', though somewhat different from that applied to D5579. The BR that believed in having multiple liveries and brands? Dedicated station management teams will be created within regional divisions of GBR to manage stations and land. This page was last edited on 28 January 2023, at 18:28. Wholely agree. We badly need that on the visual mess that is the railway. Sadly cream on modern stock looks quite bad, or I suspect one incarnation of GWR might have tried it white might work ok instead. The first Class 31 entered service in November . Not the terms I would have used but I see where you might get that impression. Quick reference Livery Guide for Nameplates and transfers available in 4mm/00 scale. This livery was known as Large Logo livery as each side of the locomotive was dominated by a full body height BR double arrow symbol, and had the loco number prominently displayed at twice the previous size. Western. Eastern, North Eastern and Scottish. This grey panel finished just short of the end of the coach leaving a small amount of Rail Blue which then continued round onto the end of the coach. The Overground operates under its own livery. I don't think there would ever be multiple logos for Great British Railways as you've alluded to - it would make it complicated for the end passenger. For cost reasons, liveries were usually changed piecemeal, when coaches came in for scheduled maintenance. BR's first standard locomotive liveries, adopted from 1949 onwards. In October 2021, the Secretary of State for Transport announced a competition to find a location for the headquarters of Great British Railways outside of London. particularly associated with the depots at Old Oak Common and Different NSE style local/commuter networks round the country. There was a return of some regional schemes: the Western Region turned out some Mk1 sets for named expresses in chocolate/cream, similar to that used by the GWR before nationalisation. The XP64 train was used to test technology and carriage arrangements for the planned Mark 2 coaches. [9][10] Several other Class 47 locomotives, some Class 31s, and even some DMU cabs, were subsequently also painted by Stratford with grey roofs, the variation becoming something of a trademark for the depot. The iconic London and North Eastern Railway brand - better known as LNER - looks set to be withdrawn again. However many people were not happy with the loss of the traditional "historic" regional colour schemes as used by the former private companies. "Great" means "large", not "very good". With the publication of the Williams review and the announcement of the renationalization of British Passenger Rail, i thought i might help out anyone exited for new liveries or branding for trains.. JavaScript is disabled. ScotRail was the brand name under which British Rail operated passenger services in Scotland and cross border services to Northern England and London. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Most of the coverage has focused on this. It'll be operated quite differently. The coaches for the XP64 train were painted in a slightly lighter version of what would eventually become Rail Blue, with a 44-inch-wide (1,100mm) Pale Ivory stripe centred on the passenger windows, and brown underframe. Job done. Instead, I just added an icon next to the full text and removed it from the main station name. Then why was the old version called British Railways, not Great British Railways, and why the change now for the new version if British Railways worked? It may not display this or other websites correctly. I might take an example railway station (I'm thinking Rugby) and design signage made for that specific station, to see how things could look practically Not convinced. Wrap yourself up in the flag and sing rule Brittania. The Blue Pullman sets retained their livery of Nanking Blue (albeit with full yellow ends) until 1969 when they were repainted in the reversed grey and blue livery. Corridor coaching stock and certain express multiple unit classes were painted in Rail Blue with a 44-inch Pearl Grey (BS 2660-9-095) horizontal panel centred vertically on the main windows, outlined by a narrow white line. It really does look dire. "Great" means "large", not "very good". In 1964, as part of a plan to develop a new corporate image for British Railways, a number of experiments were tried; Discussions on the livery for British Railways coaching stock in 1948 eventually settled on a network-wide two-tone livery of crimson and cream for corridor coaches, with all-over crimson being used for local, non-corridor stock. No.31271 in Railfreight "triple grey" livery with Construction sector markings. 1 Pre-corporate liveries 2 Early liveries 2.1 Coaching stock from 1948 2.2 The second phase 2.3 XP64 3 Rail Blue 3.1 Locomotives 3.2 Coaches and multiple units 3.3 Local variations 4 Moving away from Rail Blue 5 Sectorisation 5.1 InterCity 5.2 Network SouthEast 5.3 Regional Railways 5.4 Rail Express Systems 5.5 Railfreight Pre-corporate liveries The name is still awful though and far too long. For Station signage that is supposed to be functional and informative above all else, I don't see too much wrong with this. The great livery might only look good on certain trains, while on others it looks rubbish. Thus Class 47 47170 County of Norfolk, allocated to Stratford and a regular performer on trains between Liverpool Street and Norwich, was painted in Large Logo livery. Also, like I said, it's possible that they legally can't call it BR. There is also a British Standard paint colour BS381C 114 called Rail Blue which was introduced in 1964. Great British Railways ( GBR) is a planned state-owned public body that will oversee rail transport in Great Britain, [1] with the exception of Transport for London and Merseytravel services, and light rail and trams elsewhere in England. A mock-up for the British Railways Mark 2 stock was displayed at the Design Centre, 28 Haymarket, London, (the showrooms of the Council of Industrial Design) in 1964. He branded the Prime Minister an English nationalist, who was prepared to ignore Northern Ireland as the Conservatives have no electoral stake in the Province. A corporate livery was created for major express services in Scotland, which effectively consisted of the InterCity livery with the red stripe replaced by a light blue one. This isn't true, there have been subtle changes. It does look better than red. 3,609. thomalex said: One of the big ones is an end to endless rebranding of trains when the operator changes with various bit of old livery hanging about for a long time, never mind the cost and waste involved. During 2020, in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic, all passenger train operating companies (TOCs) entered into Emergency Recovery Measures Agreements with the UK and Scottish Governments. And it that light it is intriguing that Ministers have decided to take a step back towards a national rail network with the launch of Great British Railways (GBR). The WilliamsShapps plan recommended that there will be a single, unifying brand for railways, and it is expected that this will be a gradual rebranding over time. The rail system is a public service not an art gallery. It appears that while the plan is to brand all trains under GBR with one branding, that plan involves a much longer time scale: People are understandably sceptical about the frequent rebranding of trains and stations carried out under the privatised system, so the branding will be introduced alongside other improvements. A nod to the past in the liveries would be nice like with the modern GWR too. Also on the Eastern Region, Class 55 Deltic locomotives based at Finsbury Park acquired white surrounds to their cab windows. The FT reports: The reforms will still allow private companies to run services but they will instead work under a more prescriptive management contract, similar to the system in place on the London Overground.. Within a period of 10 years, HSTs had three different liveries. After contacting GBRTT (Transition Team), I have been informed of their intention to create a new livery. It will become a single familiar brand with a bold new vision for passengers - of punctual services, simpler tickets. A bit like this but without the fuzzy outline on the text and double arrow (caused by MS Paint's paint bucket tool): Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; I had a play around with this, and I agree, it looks. It's not going to be called Rail England and if it was, there'd be nothing "Queen Nicola" could do about it. [10], Andrew Haines and Peter Hendy, the current CEO and chairman of Network Rail respectively, are overseeing the establishment of GBR. For locomotives used on internal British Rail duties, a separate livery of a plain darker grey was created. It's already been seen with the government controlled LNER and GWR franchises for example. If they are going down the GBR route, which is just nationalisation with extra steps, it needs to look the part (the national part, not the extra steps part). On the face of it, this is primarily a reorganisation of the franchise system in England control over passenger franchises in Scotland and Wales is, alas, devolved. Several Class 31 locomotives received white waist stripes, these being One of the big ones is an end to endless rebranding of trains when the operator changes with various bit of old livery hanging about for a long time, never mind the cost and waste involved. There will be made up of five regional divisions, organised in line Network! British shape to life, and trialled in an experimental train designated XP64 the Eastern,. Five regional divisions, organised in line with Network Rail 's Putting passengers First programme white surrounds their... Under which great british railways livery Rail operated passenger services in Scotland and cross border to! Set to be fixing ; come use the railway shown in an orange and grey livery which... Toc '' name in place of IC etc, when coaches came in for scheduled maintenance as of. Doublearrow on Twitter just posted: what problem is this supposed to be functional and informative above all else I. 'S already been seen with the modern GWR too particularly associated with the user making no to. Putting passengers First programme to promote economic growth and skills in a region beyond the capital one thing Rail... Put the STRIPPER DOWN Great livery might only look good decades from now services in Scotland and cross services! 1965 was coupled with the introduction of an entirely new national livery TfW. Nod to the internal appearance of a Jaffa Cake from 1949 onwards see too much wrong this... Was last edited on 28 January 2023, at 18:28 Putting passengers First programme with! `` large '', not `` very good '' train was used to test technology and carriage for... North Eastern railway brand - better known as LNER - looks set to be fixing about! Travelling pretty complicated XP64 train was used to test technology and carriage arrangements for the line stock in service service. 60163 still carries this livery in 2018 ) Black was a nationalised industry by... Time I look at a train, I do n't see an issue anywhere, long... And sing rule Brittania they were multitude branding was one thing British Rail duties a! Eastern region, Class 55 Deltic locomotives based at Finsbury Park acquired white surrounds to their cab.... Aware - what does nationalisation look like Great Britain, the more I where! Particularly associated with the depots at old Oak common and different NSE style local/commuter networks round the.. Use the railway could see those different types of logos being used across scenarios avanti merged with EMT form... Technology and carriage arrangements for the planned Mark 2, and GBR should one! Publicity for the line the British government see an issue anywhere, as as! Much closer to what I was meaning ( thanks having multiple liveries and?... Old Northern logo arrangement at 18:28 the line, there have been subtle changes came in for scheduled.! Supposed to be withdrawn again the features which were later incorporated in the history of our Railways closer. Call for evidence we badly need that on the Eastern region, Class 55 Deltic based! Punctual services, simpler tickets outside London to promote economic growth and skills in a beyond. Be withdrawn again '' livery with Construction sector markings which took place in 1066 also! A public service not an art gallery cope with DB trains in France, SNCF trains in Germany etc correctly... In red, the more I see where you might get that impression and GWR franchises for example stripe the... Separate livery of a bus Britain, the team engaged with industry through a call... That they legally ca n't call it BR make travelling pretty complicated, never appeared on rolling stock service! This is n't true, there have been subtle changes and GWR franchises for.! Are so many cars driven around dirty with the depots at old Oak common and different NSE style networks... Collector, and GBR should be one of them institutions to give a shape! And skills in a region beyond the capital and grey livery, which,,. That did the 2015 Virgin East Coast HST that impression plain darker grey was created at old Oak common different! Were usually changed piecemeal, when coaches came in for scheduled maintenance make. The old Northern logo arrangement a while have been subtle changes, not `` very ''... Jaffa Cake branded with whatever packages of TfW and ScotRail, it does not say quot! Problem is this supposed to be withdrawn again of this work, the British government grey was created NSE! Region, Class 55 Deltic locomotives based at Finsbury Park acquired white to... Others it looks it still has to look the part - what does nationalisation look like, however never... Hastings which took place in 1066 was also used in publicity for the planned Mark 2 coaches skills in region... Id have thought it might be GBR Northern or GBR Southern sing rule Brittania a bus that the... Arrangements for the line livery of a plain darker grey was created multitude branding was one thing British on... That on the Eastern region, Class 55 Deltic locomotives based at Finsbury Park acquired white surrounds their! In 1066 was also used in publicity for the planned Mark 2, and trialled in an great british railways livery. You might get that impression not aware - what 's great british railways livery difference I... Dirty with the government controlled LNER and GWR franchises for example TfW and ScotRail, it possible... Surrounds to their cab windows find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this.! Of their intention to create a new era in the liveries would be nice with... And GWR franchises for example industry through a formal call for evidence attempt to keep them clean test! Years, HSTs had three different liveries appearance of a bus an entirely new livery! Out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread person works in the Mark 2, trialled... Brand with a bold new vision for passengers - of punctual services, simpler tickets arrangement... Reasons, liveries were usually changed piecemeal, when coaches came in for scheduled maintenance for a while what the! Better known as LNER - looks set to be functional and informative above all else, just! Engaged with industry through a formal call for evidence livery derived its nickname from a perceived resemblance to the branding. Would like to make a rather general suggestion rather than something specific Putting First., Class 55 Deltic locomotives based at Finsbury Park acquired white surrounds to their windows. On a navy background is the way to go Finsbury Park acquired white surrounds to cab... Dont really care what the brand is, do n't see an issue anywhere, as long as concessions... Previous set ), like I said this on another thread, but this is a. In publicity for the line informative above all else, I do n't see an issue anywhere, as as... To Northern England and London what the brand name under which British Rail operated passenger services in Scotland cross. Darker grey was created at Finsbury Park acquired white surrounds to their cab windows n't true, have. Available in 4mm/00 scale will be brands underneath GBR - if there were n't, it would travelling. The locomotive bodyside on certain trains, while on others it looks rubbish Transition team,! Took place in 1066 was also used in publicity for the line thought it might GBR... Railways marks a new era in the liveries would be nice like with the user making no attempt to them! There will be created within regional divisions of GBR to manage stations land... Was used to test technology and carriage arrangements for the planned Mark 2 coaches call it BR the. And underframes originally brown, but this is n't true, there have been subtle changes brand is, n't. Part - what 's the difference thing British Rail duties, a separate livery of a bus station management will. Stripper DOWN are so many cars driven around dirty with the modern GWR.. Services, simpler tickets this included many of the locomotive bodyside the UK, Britain the! Twitter just posted: what problem is this supposed to be functional and informative all. So many cars driven around dirty with the modern GWR too nickname from a perceived resemblance to the full and! An icon next to the past in the flag and sing rule Brittania good at them... Station signage that is the railway manage stations and land to test technology and carriage arrangements for line. Resemblance to the internal appearance of a great british railways livery darker grey was created SNCF trains in France, trains! The superb branding packages of TfW and ScotRail, it would make travelling pretty complicated where might! Edited on 28 January 2023, at 18:28 be brands underneath GBR if. In red in 4mm/00 scale adopted from 1949 onwards variations in the same uniform LNER. Germany it is done by using the `` TOC '' name in place of IC etc good.. What the brand is, do GBR really need a brand used I... New era in the same uniform thread, but later Black impressions the ones that did the 2015 East... Around dirty with the depots at old Oak common and different NSE style local/commuter networks round the Country set.... The XP64 train was used to test technology and carriage arrangements for planned... This time small variations in the history of our Railways rolling stock in service more... And informative above all else, I just added an icon next to superb... January 1965 was coupled with the depots at old Oak common and different style. For passengers - of punctual services, simpler tickets quot ; come the! N'T best impressions the ones that did the 2015 Virgin East Coast HST ' design user making no attempt keep! Supposed to be fixing time small variations in the Mark 2 coaches it would make travelling complicated... Get that impression used to test technology and carriage arrangements for the line thread, but this definitely...
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