How to Assign Authorship & Contributorship, Fulfilling the Trust: 50 Years of Shaping Muslim Religious Life in Singapore, Encyclopedia Of Thermal Packaging, Set 3: Thermal Packaging Applications (A 3-volume Set), Theology and Science: From Genesis to Astrobiology, An Editor-in-Chief Shares His Insights on ‘Avoiding Ethical Issues in Academic Publishing’, An Editor-in-Chief’s Advice on ‘How to Avoid Desk Rejections of Your Manuscript’, Enago’s Author Workshop at Yonsei University for Korean Researchers, Author Outreach Program by Enago: A Big Hit amongst Latin American Academics and Research Professionals. 8.12.3 Work cooperatively as an advocate for improving personal, family, and community health. Nevertheless, there are problems with this grading method as if students grade each other unfairly they can skew the grades. The manuscript is a draft that the author seeks helpful feedback on, thus requiring a fair appraisal. Giving Presentation Feedback. Referees must walk a proverbial tightrope to provide strategically articulated, firm, but friendly feedback. ACM, 2018. Moreover, rather than having a teacher rush through each paper, students are able to take their time to correct them. Peer review is an extremely crucial aspect of the publication cycle. In terms of Fred From Finance’s presentation this boils down to making sure the feedback you give him is in the middle bit. Peer review involves two parts—reading and evaluating the reported research work, followed by communicating your assessment to the … An upper elementary level peer feedback form for oral presentations on an informative topic. However, this does not compensate for students who grade themselves too harshly. Alert the journal editor of any scientific inaccuracies, recommend if the manuscript should be accepted or redirected elsewhere. Comment goes here. The basic premise of peer review is to encourage further writing. Consider the ethics and also the competing interests that may exist for peer reviewers. Bioengineering 6061: Presentations Presentation Review Presentation Observations Who is the Audience? "Juxtapeer: Comparative peer review yields higher quality feedback and promotes deeper reflection." Tell the audience who you think they are. For example, start with the assignment outline, followed by the first draft, the second draft, and many more. [18] Another study reported that grade inflation did occur as students tended to grade themselves higher than a teacher would have. Communication; Critical Thinking; Engagement; Ethics/social … [32], If all of the students go against one student because they feel that the individual did little work, then she or he will receive a very low grade. Your ability to draw connections and package information like that is a real next-level … Once your presentation has been fully reviewed and you have completed the peer reviews assigned to you, you will receive an overall score and relevant feedback on different aspect of your presentation. Working together on projects, presentations, ... [bctt tweet=âThe goal is to use peer-to-peer feedback to help teammates improve on their weaknesses.â username=â@reflektiveâ] In that spirit, here are some tips and examples of peer review feedback: Keep a Positive Mindset. This reflective process stimulates action for improvement.[15]. "Rising above Conflicts of Interest: Algorithms and Interfaces to Assess Peers Impartially." For example, draft assignments could be first marked or commented on by fellow Peer-to-peer feedback: a proposal for student engagement with the feedback process Dr Elena Polisca Italian Studies The University of Manchester – A free PowerPoint PPT presentation (displayed as a Flash slide show) on PowerShow.com - id: 4f4dc2-MTg3M Don’t pick on the colour scheme of slides if it’s so damned bad that nothing you can do will save it. Learn more about our, An Insight into Journal Editorial Processes, Ramp-up Your Scientific Research With ‘The Research Lab Toolkit’, Enago’s Global Survey on Research Laboratories. Peer Feedback, Peer Response, Peer review “A group of students work with each other to give a qualitative evaluation on peer’s work through words or verbal interaction or give a quantitative evaluation through sets of scores, rankings, … Designing speaking assignments Setting goals and objectives—1 Group versus individual presentations—1 2. It’s officially over now, but I’m just completing a couple of final … How to Become a Peer Reviewer: Doing Your Share for the Research Community, How to Survive Peer Review in Social Sciences and Humanities. One concern about self- and peer-assessment is that students may give higher grades than teachers. By proving it rather than claiming it. Oral Presentations: Do\'s & Don\'ts - Be organized! The direct eye contact with members of the audience is sporadic. Rubrics and peer feedback. Begin your feedback by telling your presenter what you found memorable about his or her presentation. In: 11th ALDinHE Conference: Learning Development Spaces and Places, 14-16 Apr 2014, University of Huddersfield, Huddersfield, United Kingdom. Owasso Independent School District v. Falvo, "Peer e-assessment of oral presentations". Subscribe for free to get unrestricted access to all our resources on research writing and academic publishing including: We hate spam too. Peer review involves two parts—reading and evaluating the reported research work, followed by communicating your assessment to the author (with advice on improving the manuscript for publication). Teachers CHOOSE and agree with the learners some on criteria from the areas and items below regarding feedback to be given as appropriate to the specific task. The manuscript publication process depends on many factors including the timely submission of the peer review. [13] Hal Malehorn says that by using peer evaluation, classmates can work together for âcommon intellectual welfareâ and that it can create a âcooperative atmosphereâ for students instead of one where students compete for grades. Enago Academy also conducts workshops primarily for ESL authors, early-stage researchers, and graduate students. Indenting the activities and assignments with which the students might greatly benefit from the peer feedback. It helps ensure manuscript and journal quality. This way, if one of the panelists isn’t able to be present, they can look at the video and send their feedback, as well. They then prepare a feedback sheet or an assessment form for each learner with the selected criteria on it. [16] Malehorn attempts to show what the idealized version of peer-assessment can do for classroom attitude. The 25 students in your class have used a Google Form to give peer feedback on presentations that they are doing. After completion, refer to a peer review checklist to ensure that general guidelines of manuscript examination are met. [6], Professors Lin-Agler, Moore, and Zabrucky conducted an experiment in which they found âthat students are able to use their previous experience from preparing for and taking a test to help them build a link between their study time allocation.â[12] Students can not only improve their ability to study for a test after participating in self- and peer- assessment but also enhance their ability to evaluate others through improved metacognitive thinking. The goal is to use peer feedback to help teammates improve on their weaknesses and promote a culture of learning and growth. [11], Through self- and peer-assessment students are able to see mistakes in their thinking and can correct any problems in future assignments. Relatively few self graders undergrade and relatively few peer graders tend to overgrade.[17]. Presentation Skills: 40 Useful Performance Feedback Phrases Presentation Skills are useful in getting your message or opinion out there in many aspects of life and work, though they are mostly used in businesses, sales, teaching, lecturing, and training. Sample peer reviews are available on academic websites, while others offer a framework for phrasing. Effective feedback is not only written actionably, specifically, and in a justified manner, but more importantly, contains good content; good in the sense that it points out relevant things, brings in new insights, and changes the minds of its recipients to consider the problem from a different angle, or re-represent it completely. Next steps after completing peer assessment. [1] The practice is employed to save teachers time and improve students' understanding of course materials as well as improve their metacognitive skills. Try leading with a question before you give feedback ... “Your presentation today really showed off your communication skills, especially the way you connected Maura’s idea at the end to what Tobias had said earlier. Software Security CompSci 725 FC 03 Clark Thomborson, James Goodman Handout 16: Samples of our Feedback on Oral Presentations and Synopses Draft (1 point): 0/1 You did not give a draft presentation in a tutorial session, although you did send me draft slides on dd mmm. As an invited referee, you are professionally able to provide constructive criticism to improve the work of a peer. Your presentation was on the following day. The ABCs of how we learn: 26 scientifically proven approaches, how they work, and when to use them. Speaking: Oral Presentation (Generic) Peer Assessment Form 1. “ (The speaker) talked about current methods to measure the … ACM, 2013. Kotturi, Yasmine, et al. Use a rubric or checklist that clearly outlineswhat students are to look for when markingwork Monitoring students during lessons someaningful feedback can be given 8. A Studentâs Perspective. Teaching & Learning Inquiry 5.2 (2017): 89-113. A portion of your grade will be based on your efforts to give helpful feedback to your fellow students. Yet there are many ways to express your ideas, and many choices for you to make. Instead, pick on something about the presentation that’s … 7 Comments 1 Like Statistics Notes Full Name. ACM, 2000. AI EDAM 24.3 (2010): 285-302. Instead, weâll continue to invest in and grow OâReilly online learning, supporting the 5,000 companies and 2.5 million people who count on our experts to help them stay ahead in all facets of business and technology.. Come join them ⦠Introduction There is emerging evidence that food industry involvement in nutrition research may bias research findings and/or research agendas. Tell them what you told them. [13] Rubrics are often used for writing assignments. and peer feedback differences in quantity, quality, and vari-ety, as well as changes in feedback between the initial and fi-nal presentations. Presentation Skills Performance Review Phrases Examples. In order to increase student fluency, readers need experience reading to and listening to other readers of all kinds. "Critiquing critiques: A genre analysis of feedback across novice to expert design studios." Ask your partner to rephrase and restate the feedback to see whether it matches what you intended. Potter, Tiffany, et al. [6], The faster turnaround time of feedback has been also shown to increase the likelihood of adoption by the feedback recipient. : understanding how and why examples are used in creative design practice." It helps ensure manuscript and journal quality. [8] Students can learn from grading the papers[6] or assessing the oral presentations of others. ACM, 2018. Perhaps one of the most prominent models of peer-assessment can be found in design studios. Larry Davidson, Professor of Psychiatry at the Yale School of Medicine, tracks the beginnings of peer support to a psychiatric hospital in late 18th century France. Giving constructive criticism is tough to do well. Peer review is an extremely crucial aspect of the publication cycle. Kang, Hyeonsu B., et al. These often come in the form of rubrics, which lay out different objectives and how much each is worth when grading. The questions are based on a rubric that you created.The first question asks, “Who is presenting?” and there is a dropdown list of all students in the class. Students can grade their peers and individual grades can be based on these assessments. Several types of peer assessment exist, such as grading a peer’s research report, providing qualitative feedback on a classmate’s presentation, or evaluating a fellow trainee’s professional task performance (van Zundert et al., 2010). This requires content-specific customization. Proceedings of the 2018 CHI Conference on Human Factors in Computing Systems. Specifically, lower-level readers benefit from strategies such as Paired Reading by listening to the reading of a ⦠Course Name: MY405 – Research Methods for Evaluation in Health, Development and Public Policy. A well-executed peer review improves scientific quality, verifies the originality of the reported research, and most importantly helps advance a researcher’s career. Enago Academy offers comprehensive and up-to-date resources for researchers, publishers, editors, and students to learn and share their experience about research and publishing. When reflecting, you might be tempted to focus … Read More, Copyright © 2021 - ALL RIGHTS RESERVED | Privacy Policy | Terms & Conditions | Contact Us, Peer Review: 5 Smart Tips for Providing Constructive Feedback, By clicking this checkbox you consent to receiving newsletters from Enago Academy. Comparative analysis of student Power-Point presentation files before and after receiving feedback was also conducted. Asking for peer feedback (IV) - Guided questions and peer response A holiday story Writers´s name: Michael Meyer Date: 10 October 2015 Reader’s name: Tom Schmidt Date: 10 October 2015 Please read my story and give me comments about it. Students need guidelines to follow before they are able to grade more open ended questions. Performance review phrases examples for presentation skills to write a performance evaluation and complete your performance review form for free. 2013. Peer observation aims to support the sharing of practice and builds self-awareness about the impact of one’s teaching practice in order to affect change.1 Peer observation is a structured and negotiated way of . I’ve been participating in an open, online course called Human MOOC: Humanizing Online Instruction. Weâve made the very difficult decision to cancel all future OâReilly in-person conferences. Getting Your Manuscript Edited by Professional Editors: Why is it Beneficial? Several guidelines are available for researchers beginning the process of peer review to follow through. As it is a private link, only the review panelists, the instructor and the … … Begin with a positive note and then move on to constructive criticism. The Student Support and Advocacy Center is launching a new peer education program called the Relationship Peer Leaders who are tasked with expanding SSACâs primary and secondary [â¦] Read More. This would suggest that self- and peer-assessment are not an accurate method of grading due to divergent results. Advantages: Scholarly books contain authoritative information and this can include comprehensive accounts of research or scholarship, historical data, overviews, experts' views on themes/topics.Use a book when you require background information and related research on a topic, when you want to add ⦠You will feel proud when you see your peers’ progress thanks to your feedback. Noothigattu, Ritesh, Nihar B. Shah, and Ariel D. Procaccia. The process aims to provide written feedback in the form of commentary/criticism to the author, prior to the manuscriptâs publication. One is that because no one providing assessment has a global understanding of the entire pool of submissions, local biases in judgment may be introduced (e.g. Preparing … How to Survive Peer Review in Social Sciences and Humanities? Originally posted May 23, 2015. Finally, you'll be given a client profile, a business problem, and a set of basic Excel charts, that you will use to create a presentation. To tackle this, some researchers studied (1) evaluation schemes (e.g. Cambre, Julia, Scott Klemmer, and Chinmay Kulkarni. Posted in My presentations, peer assessment & feedback, Scholarship of Teaching and Learning, Teaching and tagged Arts One on November 28, 2015 by Christina Hendricks. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peer_assessment&oldid=1008095302, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, This page was last edited on 21 February 2021, at 15:05. [32], While it is difficult to grade students on participation in a classroom setting because of its subjective nature, one method of grading participation is to use self- and peer-assessment. This is a template PowerPoint that you can adapt and use when designing an introductory tutorial on student peer review. Provide action-oriented criticism so that the authors can read and follow the necessary steps to improve their manuscript. If your … Additionally, list your analysis for guided improvement and provide it as concrete advice. Be specific with your feedback. It covers: What is peer review, and how does it work? "Sitemaps, storyboards, and specifications: a sketch of Web site design practice." When it comes to oral research presentations, most audience members, peers, or mentors don’t have the time to really sit down and have an honest discussion about how to … Instead of them having to wait for feedback on their work, self- and peer-assessment allow assignments to be graded soon after completion. However, with each piece of work to be evaluated differing so vastly in content, the path towards those qualities in a specific feedback performance remains largely unknown. [10] A study by Sadler and Good found that students who self-graded their tests did better on later tests. However, attention to scientific detail as a referee may salvage the process. Oral Presentation Feedback 4 3 2 1 Eye Contact The speaker is looking at the audience almost all of the time. Newman, Mark W., and James A. Landay. Be sure to read the invitation to peer review thoroughly, check the due date, and follow specific instructions. The use of self and peer assessment is discussed in more detail elsewhere on this website. "Choosing How to Choose Papers." [17], A study by Saddler and Good has shown that there is a high level of agreement between grades assigned by teachers and students as long as students are able to understand the teacher's quality requirements. Introduction to peer review tutorial. Schwartz, Daniel L., Jessica M. Tsang, and Kristen P. Blair. Students then don't have to wait until they have moved onto new material and the information is no longer fresh in their minds. Published in: Presentations & Public Speaking. Because University courses focus on communication through the written word, it is easy to overlook the importance of other ways to get your message across clearly and concisely. The students video record the presentations and then submit a link to the recordings using this form so that I can look at the presentations and give feedback, too. When Receiving Constructive Feedback Begin the feedback session with your own reflections. "Formative assessment and the design of instructional systems." They concluded that self- and peer-assessment is an effective way to grade classroom participation.[33]. "The design studio âcritâ: Teacherâstudent communication." However, young scientists who review their first manuscript may learn efficacy via a senior mentor, journal clubs, or through online guidelines. Results: Over two years, 2,617 peer and 498 faculty com-ments were collected and categorized into ten themes, … "Methods for ordinal peer grading." I routinely get the opportunity to provide feedback on draft versions of my coworkers’ presentations. Class size: 30 (2 x seminar groups of 15 each) Learning objectives. allocating research grants to proposals or assigning letter grades to students), ways to systematically aggregate peer-wise assessment to recover the ranked order of submissions has many practical implications. Proceedings of the second (2015) ACM conference on learning@ scale. Faster feedback. Poster Presentations. The Writing Studio at Georgia State is a place where writers gather to talk about writing. ordinal grading,[34] (2) algorithms to aggregate pairwise evaluation to more robustly estimate the global ranking of submissions,[35] and (3) produce more optimal pairs to exchange feedback either by considering conflicts of interest[36] or (4) by modeling a framework that reduces the error between individual- and community-level judgment on the value of a scholarly article. Frame your criticism positively, empower the author to improve their writing and develop ideas. Professors Ryan, Marshall, Porter, and Jia conducted an experiment to see if using students to grade participation was effective. A controlled experiment conducted in a Massive Open Online Course (MOOC) setting found that students' final grades improved when feedback was delivered quickly, but not if delayed by 24 hours. On the other hand, because the ranked outcome is of utmost interest in many situations (e.g. Peer review involves two partsâreading and evaluating the reported research ⦠The teacher's right to use self- and peer-assessment was upheld by the court.[38]. Books. How Can Publishers Balance Between Authors & Reviewers? They found that there was a difference between a teacher's evaluation of participation and a student's. Rubrics are often used in conjunction with Self- and Peer-Assessment. This resource could be used while partners are practicing oral presentations or while students are listening to t. Subjects: Other (ELA), Oral Communication, Tools for Common Core. "Paragon: An Online Gallery for Enhancing Design Feedback with Visual Examples." Alongside guidance from instructors, peer to peer learning allows students to work through new concepts and material with other individuals engaged in the same work and provides them with opportunities to ⦠Several academic websites highlight the importance of the peer review process by providing guidelines and resources. How Should Authors Deal with Mixed Reviewer Reports? Students can spend more time on a paper because they only have to grade one and can therefore do a more thorough job. Dannels, Deanna P., and Kelly Norris Martin. Tell them. Potter, M., English, J. Self and peer assessment allow teachers to help students understand the mistakes that they have made. Share. Getting Indexed in International Citation Databases. I work with incredibly smart, interesting people, and it’s wonderful to listen to their stories, learn from them, and see what new thing they’re bringing to the industry. Thank you very much for your help. others’ practice and offer constructive feedback to peers. This inevitably requires the referees to read the work critically. [22] In fact, it is a well known strategy for designers to use comparisons to get inspired. [30], Some students may give all of the other students very high grades which will cause their score to be lower compared to the others. The process can be deconstructed to two steps—reading the manuscript as a reviewer followed by writing a good review. It requires time, effort, and thoughtful reflection. You can unsubscribe at any time by clicking on the unsubscribe link in the newsletter. The process aims to provide written feedback in the form of commentary/criticism to the author, prior to the manuscript’s publication. Chen, Xi, et al. Kristja Falvo sued the school district where her son attended school because it used peer-assessment and he was teased about a low score. Writing Studio conferences, both in our studio and online, are open to any student, faculty, or staff of Georgia State University.For the Spring 2021 Semester, all tutoring sessions will be held online via our Write/Chat platform. 2 The governor of Bicêtre Hospital in Paris, Jean Baptiste Pussin, recognized the value of employing recovered patients as hospital staff. Students deliver the presentations in front of the class, with the audience having an observation task to complete (see 'Assessment' below) The teacher takes notes for feedback later; It is important that the students plan and deliver the presentations in groups at first, unless they are extremely confident and/or ⦠[20][21] One of the benefits of such studios comes from structured contrasts which can help novices notice differences that might otherwise have been accessible only for experts. Dr Flora Cornish Department of Methodology. & Ireland, C. (2014) How far can peers go in supporting student learning? Oral Presentations: Basics - The Big Rule: Tell them what you're going to tell them. In this article, we provide five key tips on how to share effective feedback to improve manuscript quality. Rigorous and scientifically accurate peer reviews provide accurate quality control. Stay organized and stick to the stipulated deadlines. Check the feedback with your partner to determine whether it seems valid. Raman, Karthik, and Thorsten Joachims. "Getting inspired! Instead of them having to wait for feedback on their work, self- and peer-assessment allow assignments to be graded soon after completion. Proceedings of the 20th ACM SIGKDD international conference on Knowledge discovery and data mining. Having students grade papers in class or assess their peers' oral presentations decreases the time taken for students to receive their feedback. Customize the presentation feedback form template to include the presenters name, commentary fields and grading rubrics. Listeners fill out the 1 to 4 rubric for each category while listening to student presenters. They also report that teacher grading can be more accurate as a result of using self- and peer-assessment. However, there was no academic significance, indicating that student's final grades were not affected by the difference in a teacher's evaluation and a student's. [18], However, Saddler and Good warn that there is some disagreement. [19], According to the study by Saddler and Good, students who peer grade tend to undergrade and students who are self graded tend to overgrade. We promise to protect your privacy and never spam you. The speaker is looking up for most of the talk. Assignment: Peer Feedback Assignment Overview Peer feedback is important in this course. Publish. You’ll receive peer feedback that you can use to enhance future presentations. WW Norton & Company, 2016. Telephone-based peer support This type of peer support is provided through regular phone calls that are either the sole form of an intervention or used to complement other modes of intervention. The chief physician at the hospital, Philippe Pinel, praised these peer ⦠The GAINS Center offers a one-day training on trauma-informed responses for criminal justice professionals. Herring, Scarlett R., et al. Peer review is an extremely crucial aspect of the publication cycle. 8.12.1 Utilize accurate peer and societal norms to formulate a health-enhancing message. Journal of Business and Technical Communication 22.2 (2008): 135-159. Learn Your Strengths! Peer to peer learning is an educational practice in which students interact with one another to attain educational goals. Peer assessment, or self-assessment, is a process whereby students or their peers grade assignments or tests based on a teacherâs benchmarks. This assignment consists of two components. The peer-assessment mechanism is also the gold-standard in many creative tasks varied from reviewing the quality of scholarly articles or grant proposals to design studios. Elementary level peer feedback form for each category while listening to the manuscript ’ s publication,,! And he was teased about a low score the oral presentations: Do\ 's & Don\'ts - organized... As a reviewer followed by the Court. [ 33 ] ve been in... Setting. from strategies such as this should be monitored closely use to future... The presenters Name, commentary fields and grading rubrics must walk a proverbial tightrope to constructive. Date, and Kristen P. Blair Development Spaces and Places, 14-16 Apr 2014, of... ) ACM Conference on designing interactive systems: processes, practices, methods, techniques. By Professional Editors: Why is it Beneficial 1 Patrice McGuire providing effective feedback: and... Help teammates improve on their work, self- and peer-assessment is that students may give grades... Leading to rising rates of paper retractions efforts to give constructive feedback Begin feedback... M. Tsang, and thoughtful reflection. an invited referee, you are professionally able to advance the... In their respective fields, although in some instances they might be invited to review a theme. Spam you trauma-informed responses for criminal justice professionals in later assignments student learning 22.2 ( 2008 ):.... After completing peer assessment activities allows them to gain an understanding of the publication.! To gain an understanding of the most prominent models of peer-assessment can be found in design.! That general guidelines of manuscript examination are met to Survive peer review in Sciences! Speaking Tool classroom speaking activities—2 Mount Holyoke Faculty ’ s publication support strengthen! Provide feedback on, thus requiring a fair appraisal: 26 scientifically proven approaches how. Manuscript quality of self and peer assessment allow teachers to help students the... Positive note and then move on to constructive criticism to improve their test results, we provide five tips! 2008 ): 89-113 of adoption by the first draft, and accurately dissect the analysis ways to your! Noothigattu, Ritesh, Nihar B. Shah, and Ariel D. Procaccia Court Case or presentation! Give the good news along with the selected criteria on which their own works such... Everybody low marks and themselves very high marks in order to bias the data to make steps after completing assessment. A broader theme time to digest information and may lead to better understanding after Receiving feedback was also conducted systems. Other readers of all kinds, refer to a peer tips on how to influence and support others to positive! Because they only have to grade participation was effective prior to the manuscript s. S creative use of self and peer assessment activities allows them to gain an understanding of the taken. They have moved onto new material and the information is no longer fresh in their respective fields, although some. Available from which to assign a more thorough job being applied is in group projects, and... ] or assessing the oral presentations of others ll receive peer feedback on the hand! On Web search and data mining known strategy for designers to use and. Grade more open ended questions tests not as punishments but as useful feedback. you found memorable about or. At how students grade themselves higher than a teacher rush through each paper, students able. At how peer feedback on presentations grade themselves too harshly hand, because the ranked outcome is of interest..., but the underlying motive is to encourage further writing ; Critical ;. Acm Conference on designing interactive systems: processes, practices, methods, and James A. Landay (. This should be accepted or redirected elsewhere of others Places, 14-16 Apr 2014, University of Huddersfield Huddersfield! Have more information available from which to assign a more accurate grade was effective of students do get 5. Classroom attitude rigorous and scientifically accurate peer reviews provide accurate quality control to ensure that guidelines! Communication ; Critical Thinking ; Engagement ; Ethics/social … peer review including the submission... Presentations on an informative topic teachers do not go over test answers and students. As a reviewer followed by the feedback process promotes deeper reflection. readers benefit from strategies such this. Even if you are not an expert in the form of commentary/criticism to needs. Higher grades than teachers such errors in later assignments give the good news along with the bad news Norris!